19 | Questions and answers (Part 2): How to live a spiritual life and how to meditate

 | Dr. Harbhajan Singh

This is the second part of the heart-to-heart talk with Dr. Harbhajan Singh the day after a public lecture entitled “Meditation – its possibilities and dangers”. It is a selection of interesting questions about various aspects of spiritual life: i.e. whether it is needed to have a religious or philosophical background to lead a spiritual life, why there are wars and so many bad happenings in the world, what happens at the time of death or during near-death-experiences, whether going down into the Chakras is of any use for the soul, what is the effect of entering into the astral plane and what is a real spiritual experience according to the spiritual Masters like Christ, Guru Nanak or Kabir.

 The talk was recorded on 22nd May 1995 in Stockholm, Sweden

Transcript of „Questions and answers: How to live a spiritual live and how to meditate“

Question: The way I understand is, you are addressing your philosophy more to those who have some- who is introduced to some path or some philosophy. But, in my case, I am not introduced from my parents to any religion or any path. What should I do?

Answer: No, I tell you everyone in the world.

Remark: I don’t have any tradition.

Answer: Yes, no problem. It is said that everybody has a direct and independent contact with the Godpower. Here no religion is taught, no tradition is taught, nothing about any faith – the faith in the God-into-action-power, that is the faith. All those who realise the truth, their faith is one, all Holy Scriptures say. Those who are intoxicated, they sit together. So the faith of all human beings is one and the same. That faith is: the higher values of life, to go back home, to bring purity in thought, deed and actions. That is the real dharma, that is the real faith of human beings. 

So for that purpose, in a family, you have the Pralabdh karmas for which this man body is given to you. (When) you are developed in your house, you can develop your father, you can develop your mother, you can develop your wife and children, because if one is created in the family, he can create all. Help is there because of the contacts. 

So it is but natural, many times it happened in the world, at many places it happened, if one is initiated, a lot of people are forgiven with His (God’s) grace. More you are developed, more help is there, to others also. Light comes from light, life comes from life. So it is no problem. There is not a matter of any religion or any social contact. On the level of man we are one. 

First we have to become human beings, then we are bearing the different labels of different religions. So our purpose – my main subject is to become human beings. I am not touching any religion, I am not touching any tradition, because all those religions, all those traditions will end with this physical body. When we leave the body, all these things will end. My concern is only with the spirit: you are the spirit. You are (of) the same (essence) as that of God. Our contact with God is ever fresh, unbreakable. Simply (when) we leave the body, soul has to suffer for want of right understanding.

Question: Intellectually I understand all this, but concretely, what kind of step I shall take?

Answer: I have told you two things – live and do with it. Start to live and do it. I tell you, I am living with it by the grace of the Master and doing for Him. You also start with it. It is so beautiful to work for others. It is so beautiful to develop others. When you are developed, I tell you, reformers were never made reformers. When they started to reform others, they became reformers. When good wishes come out of your heart, it will first develop you, then it will transmit to others. That is a rule. 

Question: What is your tradition? I mean, somehow I feel that you have some message from someone. What is your tradition, what you want me to know?

Answer: I want the same old, old tradition that is within you. Man is older than all the philosophies of the world. So this has not to be brought about, it is within you. It is not a new subject. Man is older than all the philosophies of the world. All philosophies came out of the man. We have not to create any new tradition. We have not to bring in any new faith. The faith is already there. Everything is there. All Holy Scriptures came from where? From man himself. Man is the true church, man is the true Bible. Everything is within. 

As I told you yesterday, all Masters whether they came in the East or West, came at different places and different time, they taught the same very truth with one opinion because this one opinion is within the man. Because its link is with the eternal truth. And the eternal truth will never change, man should not change. Man is changed only because he is identified into the body through the senses, through the mind and has totally neglected his own Self. That is the only problem. Why should we create another tradition? Then we are not true to ourselves.

Question: … the war –  there are so many wars, so many bad things going on.

Answer: Bad things? I tell you, who does the bad thing? Who does the bad thing? We are doing it. And what God wants from us? What man has done against him, he should correct himself. That is one – a big voice from the Godpower. Whatever we have created against us, we should do it in favour of us. You have told your friend: „I will do that”, (means, something) that is negative. Go to that friend, say: „Oh, please, what I have told you, is due to my mind, it is not good, let us not do that.“ He will be very happy. He will say: „It is the right way he has told me.“ If bad persons do not leave their bad habits, good persons should not leave their good habits. You have some good thing, You give it everywhere, goodness will prevail. People will come to you for decisions; people will come to you, when they have a lot of problems in them.

There was a big fight between Pakistan and India one time. And with the grace of the Master I told: „Nothing will happen, you should not leave your home.“ Because we were sitting on the border. All people went away, but we were sitting there and those who believed us, they were also sitting with us, nothing happened. Those who went away, what happened with them? Some of them were killed.

So we should believe that very old, old thing that is within us. As I told you, there is a question within, the answer is also within. When you become conscious co-worker of the divine plan, nothing will happen. 

What is the Word, spoken (of) by the Christ? The Word is all powerful, that has created the whole creation and has created all of us. Nobody can – no power in the world can break the barrier of the Word. The Word is potent (in) itself, I tell you. When you have a contact with this Word, you are supreme; you are one with the Godpower. What you think that will be done. 

One word of the Masterpower saves the whole creation. So it is not a little thing because on the level of senses, on the level of mind, we think, „No, it seems to be difficult“. But no, man is great. There is a positive way, just step there and you will have all possibilities, you will have all help there. 

What people do? They will enforce you, they will entangle you in different religions, in different sects: “I am doing this thing, this thing, this thing” – but it is all nonsense, it is not according to the Holy Scriptures. It is not according to the Christ teaching. So wherever I go, I tell you, believe your Holy Scriptures. What is written there, you need experience about it. What more is there? All those things which are shown outside, being displayed, are (leading) nowhere. Master warned us not to come in contact with these things, because it is all illusion; it is all delusion inside and outside. And we have nothing to do with it. In illusion we die, in illusion we are again coming into this world, and we are suffering at the hand of the illusion. This is our fate. 

Why should we believe it after death? Why should we not believe it, while in the body? (If) you have that experience while in the body, you know where you have to go. And you will feel happy: „I am going.“ People tell beforehand that they are going. If you are really developed, you become conscious co-worker of the divine plan. With the grace of my Master, I say: „I am going, I have to go. I have not to come back. I am not afraid of the negative power. Nobody can harm me.“ 

These are the fundamental things, which Master has told. And you can have this life, while you are in the body. You can have all that experience, which is written in the Holy Scripture, even in the living state, not after death. “Learn to die, so that you may begin to live”. The fear of death is due to only two causes: We do not know how to leave the body and we do not know where to go after leaving the body. If you learn these two things practically within yourself, your soul leaves the body, transcends above and sees what is going on inside. Every day you become conscious co-worker of the divine plan, you transcend higher and higher and higher. And you can have the same experience, which Christ got, which Guru Nanak got, which all other Masters got. 

The seed that is sown by the Masterpower, competent Master, that is not eaten up by the negative power. Once you are initiated into the mystery of the beyond, nobody can swallow it. Because this is given, this Word comes from the heaven,(from) above the cause and effect of the world. So once you are in contact with this Word, you will not come back into this world. If you come back into this world, you will not come below the human being, you can come as a doctor, not as a prisoner. Prisoners also live in the body, prisoners live in the jail and a doctor also goes there. He is not a prisoner, he only goes to treat the prisoner patients there. This is the condition, I tell you. 

So (for) those experiences, your eye, third eye must be opened. If your third eye is not opened, you are not able to see something, and (though the) master says: „I have given you something“, what have you got? Sorry to say, you have got nothing, your master says: „I have given you everything.“ So without seeing, don’t believe. Don’t believe anybody, I tell you.

Question: You are using (excuse me) –  you are telling about all the Scriptures, then you say about negative, I mean, what you mean with negative, because what I know, like an electrician and yin-yang, all cosmos (is) based on this positive and negative, what do you mean by negative and Holy Scriptures?

Answer: Yes, without the negative power…

Question: I see the problems in the world, like, now there is a, you mention Pakistan and India, now it’s blowing up that it may get into conflict because of Kashmir, and there is a …

Bhaji: Leave this process, it is a political game, it is a political game, I gave only references to the grace of the Master…

And no, no it is something else, but what about the negative and positive power? I am not bound to any religion, I am not bound to any country, sorry, I have given you the references because whenever one is commissioned from Godpower, he is above all these things. He is above all those barriers, he comes to teach the children. His purpose is entirely different from others. There can be war, there can be anything in the world, but the real war starts, when you leave the body. For you the whole world is dead. When you leave the body, what more do you want in the world? You have to bear all the consequences in the body – what does it matter to you, what happens in the world or may not happen in the world? So (in) this world, this world, which is created by the Godpower, without the negative power you cannot stay in the body and you cannot stay in the world.

Question: I want to thank you first for those beautiful things you said. They are very much important for all the world now and many souls wait for those teachings. I need just a little, little explanation about near death experiences. Many people have near death experiences and they start to say now around the world and many books have been written. A few of them say that they pass –  it starts a vibration in their body and they pass a black tunnel. It starts a vibration in their body in the beginning from their feet, they start to go up and they pass a black tunnel and after they come here in a very little, little point, a black little point and after radiating light that means that they pass causal plane and they go to over causal plane?

Answer: I tell you, the way which they tell us – all people can tell the theoretical way in the most beautiful way because you can learn all those things from the Holy Scriptures. But they do not know. A lot of Rishis and Munis, you also should read their teachings, what they did. They also started from below. Slowly, slowly they came up and they could not cross even one Chakra. There are Chakras. So they started to come over here (remark: between and behind the two eyebrows, the 3rd eye). They came over here, transcending all the Chakras. And when they came over here, they stressed over here, because (here) first is the intellect, then is the mind and then is the spirit. So far you are not free from the intellect and the mind, how can you claim that you are on the (level of the) spirit, on the level of the soul, on the seat of the soul?

So there is much difference because when they stress over here, the mind in the body is always astral mind. They see the light of the mind, and mind is a king of the three worlds. And mind will take you back to the Chakras. And what they experience? Here they feel the light. 

They feel very much light in their heart. So this is much difference. So we have to leave the body but we have not to come back into the man body. 

You just bring one piece of earth, put it into the sky, it will come down because its source is earth. Bring the light, make it up and down, the flame of the candle will go up, because the source of the candle is sun. So, we are here already (remark: at the seat of the soul, behind the two eyebrows). So Master will help you to transcend from above. 

This man body consists of two parts: One, the three world’s creation up to that (point a little bit below the seat of the soul). Up to our intellect and mind it is the creation of the three worlds. So if you start from this point, from the three worlds, you will remain in the three worlds. 

And a lot of Rishis and Munis did this practice (of) Hatha Yoga, (and) many, many other yogas, but they could not solve the riddle of life. They were burnt alive, but they could not come back. It is from their histories. Moreover, their experiences also differ from other experiences – from one another because just like you go to the mountain, you go up, you have one place to stay there. Okay? But when you come down, you can split in the whole creation. 

So when people from here came down into the different Chakras, they had their different experiences, one who came this side, he told something else, he who went this side, he told something else. Their experiences do not tally with each other. Read the experiences of those competent Masters, that is written with one opinion. Whatever Jesus Christ told, the same thing Guru Nanak told and that is also written in the Ramayana, all Masters they had one opinion. 

Sant Kirpal Singh has written a book that is on the parallel study of all religions, that is written with one opinion. The one opinion starts over here (at the seat of the soul), because here (below) we are identified with our mind, intellect and our wishes. So we are different in many, many aspects in human life and in the worldly way. Master says: „Leave this! Come over here. You are the indweller of over here.“ Because at the time of death we withdraw from the lower extremities, transcending all the Chakras, our, even the spirit comes at the throat ganglion, here it breaks, then it comes at the root of the two eyes, from there it takes upward, then it takes inward trend. That is the end of our life, here, here is the seat of the soul. But that is above the intellect and the mind, above the three worlds. Where the world-philosophies end, there the religion starts. So the religion starts above the intellect and the mind. Here, when you are doing this thing, your mind, your intellect is a very awakened one. So Master will help you to transcend from here, He says: „You forget this man body. You don’t care for. You are not the indweller of this body.“

Question: Do you mean that you can see the light of Chakras here?

Answer: No, why do you see the light of the Chakras? Why do you go into the Chakras?

Question: No, no, I don’t mean that I go, but I read few books and they say so different things and I wanted to know the difference between a real experience and…

Answer: Yes, this is right because Masters have explained it. They have differentiated it (the body) into two parts because there (one) is going through the Chakras. Because in one Chakra – even you cannot transcend one Chakra throughout your life, because these are very wide and vast, whereas you have very little time at your disposal. Rishis and Munis, they prolonged their lives to thousand years and they could not solve the riddle of life, they became the skeletons of bone, they died in the astral plane. They did not go up. So how can we do that, when we have very little time at our disposal? 

So, moreover Master explained it, why you should go there, you come there. Now there is one hazard. Those who are making these Yogas, going into the Chakras, there are many problems. At the time of death we withdraw from below and we come back here, but (for) those who have learned to go into the Chakras, it will be a very dreadful death. It will be much unhappiness, when they depart (from) the body because the process is reverse. You have to transcend above, whereas you have learned to go into the man-body. So this is a quite opposite view of the picture. 

All Masters condemned it. They said: „You left the body over here and Master comes here, He is the indweller of the (place) here, I tell you, at this place. He will withdraw you right from this place above. Because the heaven that is taught by the Christ, that starts from here. When you rise above the cause and effect of the world, then there is a holy light, effulgent light, and there is the music of the sound, that resounds within. He will make a contact through the midway there. He will not let you enter into the astral or the causal plane. Kabir has told that there are the death-traps in the astral and causal plane, once you go there, you have to leave the body there.

Question: So, with the Master …[interruption] …comes someone, go directly to overcome that plane?

Answer: Yes, right.

Question: We don’t need to pass through astral and causal plane?

Answer: No, there is no need. But supposed if your attention goes there, you are given that Word, which is beyond the three worlds and that will take you back to the midway. Because when somebody would like to see something, some beauty is there, the attention of the mind. Because up to the three planes, up to the third plane, you have the mind with you. Up to the three planes, you have the mind with you, so it will travel with you up to the three worlds. And it can sometimes put you in illusion and delusions inside and outside and can create problems, but you have the Word of the Master – at once you speak it, it will come back there and you can have your journey very fast there, within. 

So this is the teaching. This is the right teaching. But even you cannot transcend one plane, even going through the Chakras, this is too difficult. 

A wise person will always see the right angle in the right perspective because he must know, what is what. I tell you, in my life, when I was hardly six years old, I used to withdraw from the body-consciousness, transcending through the stars, the moon; I used to have a very vivid and beautiful experiences, but after some time they finished. Hardly I was twelve years old, when I was sitting in a temple, there I heard, that there are big stars and moons, you have to transcend through it. I at once stood up, I said: „Oh that is my experience, and from whom is it?” And this priest told me, “It is from Guru Nanak”. I said, “My Master is Guru Nanak”. So then I started to yearn for it. I yearned for twelve years. When Sant Kirpal Singh met me, then I told: „I don’t want to see you, I want to see my Master.“ Guru Nanak is just like a Christpower. 

You believe in Jesus Christ, we people believe in Guru Nanak, but inside, when you go (there), Guru Nanak and Jesus, they were not two, they are one. They are Word-personified-form. For me I don’t differentiate in this matter because it is a universal law that all competent Masters, they are one. They always come. 

Sometimes He came as Jesus Christ, sometimes He came as Guru Nanak, sometimes He came as Guru Gobind Singh. He came into the world in different religions and different names – the Power was one and the same. 

So this does not make any difference. Then He said: „Think of me.“ When I thought of Him, then Guru Nanak appeared to me and I said, “They are not two, they are one”. So (this is) how I followed. 

So there are a lot of references, these are the practical self-analysis, I tell you. This subject is very straight, narrow is the path, straight is the path, but it is full of darkness, that is also in the Bible. Why you go into the Chakras? Why you are after this light? When you leave the body, immediately you will have to follow the light, sorry darkness. It is within darkness, pitch darkness. You know the light only appears on the matter, not in the vacuum. You have studied science? The light only appears on the matter, not in the vacuum. So this midway is a vacuum, full of darkness.

Question: So, before, before we are, when we are in this point, we first pass some very dark…

Answer: Very dark, yes.

Question: And after we pass very little point like a hair, I mean very little black point and after we are, we see some light, or?

Answer: No, Master will give you that experience because He has to take you through the darkness, through the darkness. And He will give you the experience, which will take you, which will help you to rise…

Question: Someone experiences this without to have a Master and without know nothing about your, those things?

Bhaji: This is your background, this is your background and this is why we have come in contact with each other, this is your background. All people who come, mostly, they have their background. Others won’t come, I tell you, I told you even yesterday, that Master told me: „Only those will come to you who are sent by Him, those who have the background, they will come to you.“ It is God’s work. It is not a matter of a lot of persons getting together. It is a matter, that concerns all persons who have the background, who have the right understanding, who have to get it in this very life. And from them, there can be awakening, much awakening. 

So Master will take you from here (remark: the third eye), I tell you. He will join you from here because He is the indweller of this place. He will join you over here, He says: „Don’t go there. What is there in the body? You have to leave it. Why not leave it right now?“ You will have a wonderful life thereafter, I tell you. Because you know, what is good for you. And in the world, on the level of mind, we do not know, what is good for us, we do it lovably, smilingly, but we do not know the consequences thereof. There is a big problem. 

So all these yogas, all these things lead us to a wastage of life, wastage of many, many births. If one is misled in this birth, it (i.e.this chance) may or may not come ages upon ages. So Master says: „Be conscious!“